Traveller-digest    Wednesday, October 13 1999    Volume 1999 : Number 1203



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Lucan the Man...
Re: Lucan the Man...
Re: TL 14 FGMP, versus a Vargr in Combat-Armo
Re: Many guns II
Re: subsector/sector mapping software 
Re: Lucan the Man... 
Re: Lucan the Man... 
Re: Lucan the Man... 
Re: Jump Technology
Re: Jump Technology
Re: Firing two guns at once...
Re: Heplar Efficiency
Re: Heplar Efficiency
Re: Heplar Efficiency
Re: Slang in Trav
re: Slang in Traveller
Re: SEC:UNCLASSIFIED Was Re: GURPS errata now Graffiti
noise
Re: Heplar Efficiency
RE: Traveller Versions
RE: Traveller Versions

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 09:44:23 -0500 ()
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Re: Lucan the Man...

>In other words, all our old friends from the Marches can be found anywhere
>in the Imperium, there is still, or once again, an Imperium, and there is
>also a swag of minor states, and great chunks of lawless space - what more
>do you want?


Someone to go back in time and write it into "official" Traveller canon
this way.

Rebellion --> Hard Times --> Norris' Long Dawn --> 4th Imperium

Oooh. I'm getting the shivers. :-)

Tschuess,

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 15:45:07 +0100
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Lucan the Man...

Alan Bradley wrote:

> I've never quite worked out how Norris' fleets got burned so badly.  Sure,
> they were stretched dealing with the Vargr and Aslan, and they got into a
> brawl with the Vilani, but I would have thought that most of these
> engagements would have tended to involve Cruisers or smaller ships.  I
> can't really see where the Battle squadrons would have suffered the serious
> losses that would have occurred to Lucan's and Dulinor's fleets.

Norris had just come out of a the FFW a few years before. I doubt the
fleets would be back to full strength even after 10 years. He also
didn't have the corridor fleet in reserve. The Vargr also take double
the fleet assets, than any other foe, to keep them at bay (the
corridor fleet was at double strength for this purpose).

Ewan
- -- 

   Ewan Quibell                       Their's not to make reply,
   Senior Communications Engineer     Their's not to reason why,
   Computer Centre                    Their's but to do and die:
   University of Brighton             Into the valley of Death
                                      Rode the six hundred.
   E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              Alfred, Lord Tennyson

   #include<stddisclaimer.h>

   My spelling is entirely due to dyslexia, typos, and poetic license

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:15:15 -0300
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: TL 14 FGMP, versus a Vargr in Combat-Armo

At 05:22 PM 11/10/1999 +1300, you wrote:
>> The TL 14 FGMP, versus a Vargr in Combat-Armor, was ineffective due to not
>> hitting the head. The main shot is reduced quite a bit, and unless you hit
>> the head, you will merely inconvinience a character... I know from
>> experience. (I was using d10's for damage, BTW). The fragments were safely
>> ignored. The Vargr took a total of 7 point blank shots WHILE HE KICKED TO
>> DEATH the zhodani marine in Cbt armor 14 (Stats for the armor were from
>> Striker II).
>
>And of those seven hits the Vargr took, not one knocked him down? He 
>never had to make a panic check? That wee doggie must have had an 
>awesome Agility and Initiative!
>
>Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz>
>Wellington, New Zealand

        <Translated from the Vargr, sent by the Vargr known as Goghueghz>
                Been listening to those Solomani self-improvement tapes,
again, eh?
                No, that is typical valour and bravery for a Chosen One.
There's a reason that as disorganized as you folks consider us to be, we're
still an independant society, free from the oppressions of non-charismatic rule.
                You should keep that in mind next time you use terms like
"wee doggie"...  I bet *you* wouldn't do so well against a Chosen One as the
Zho did....
        </end translation>

        
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:16:26 EDT
From: Tascelt@aol.com
Subject: Re: Many guns II

hey Jesse,

You told me your AK was hand crafted by Siberian monks, what gives!?

TAS

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:18:12 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com>
Subject: Re: subsector/sector mapping software 

> Howdy!
> 
> > 
> > Thanxx 1.0e6  I appreciate it.  Cynthia Higgenbottom came out with 'ssv', which works ok, except that it saves off in XWD format, which screws up the colors pretty badly, *AND* makes a humoungous image file kinda like a Windoze bitmap file.  Have to run it thru Convert & Xpaint to get anything rilly useable.  I *suppose* it might be interesting to see if I can hack the source a bit and see what I get; should teach me some stuff about C...
> > 
> You will need both Perl and the Perl/Tk extension (both freely available
> at www.perl.com/CPAN). My stuff is all Perl code, and you are welcome to
> hack away. It has a non-user interface part and the Tk part as separate
> pieces, so you could roll your own user interface. My first cut at a user
> interface (before I got into Tk) was based on a command line. For pictures,
> such as subsector maps, I generated GIFs and popped up an image viewer.

I've got Perl 5.005 and Perk/Tk 800.007 (the April 15th '99 version) 
installed as part of my SuSE setup.

> I may dig that up and package it into the bundle as well.

That would be cool.  Just hope the needed libs are still around to do the 
save.
 
> I haven't had a chance to poke around yet...

Whenever you get the chance is fine, dood.

Keven

- -- 
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:28:15 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com>
Subject: Re: Lucan the Man... 

> I've never quite worked out how Norris' fleets got burned so badly.  Sure,
> they were stretched dealing with the Vargr and Aslan, and they got into a
> brawl with the Vilani, but I would have thought that most of these
> engagements would have tended to involve Cruisers or smaller ships.  I
> can't really see where the Battle squadrons would have suffered the serious
> losses that would have occurred to Lucan's and Dulinor's fleets.

He wasn't totally rebuilt from the losses of the Fifth Frontier War.
 
> This is important, of course, in that it's necessary to explain why Norris
> didn't succeed in doing an Arbellatra, and thundering into the core once
> the big players were exhausted.  (Maybe in the name of Strephon, or even
> Avery).

Two things come to mind.  1, he needed his fleets to maintain the security of 
Deneb in the face of increased Vargr pressure.  2, he wouldn'tve had a legal 
leg to stand on if he'd tried it, and he was a *stickler* for legality.  
IIRC, Avery was born *after* the assassination.  It would have been tricky 
trying to pass him off as Strephon's last surviving heir.  Fairly impossible, 
I'd think.
 
> This could, of course, be a possible alternate ending to the Rebellion. 
> Norris wasn't really part of the game, so it's not a case of giving
> credibility to any of the jerks who hosed away zillions of lives.  It can
> also still permit lots of fun and anarchy, too, as once Lucan and Dulinor
> are gone, Norris might feel obliged to negotiate with, rather than fight
> the other "Imperial" factions (Margaret, Vland, Daibei, whatever is left of
> Antares, and the minor states).  There is still also the problem that the
> Imperial economy is shot, so rebuilding worlds, suppressing piracy and
> restoring interstellar trade would take decades, or even centuries!  

True...  But he also had a lot on his plate at home to deal with, and he was 
only one man, after all.
 
> In other words, all our old friends from the Marches can be found anywhere
> in the Imperium, there is still, or once again, an Imperium, and there is
> also a swag of minor states, and great chunks of lawless space - what more
> do you want?  

You don't wanna know.  <grin>

Keven

- -- 
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:31:54 -0000
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: Lucan the Man... 

- -----Original Message-----
From: Alan Bradley <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com>
Date: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: Lucan the Man...


>I've never quite worked out how Norris' fleets got burned so badly.  Sure,
>they were stretched dealing with the Vargr and Aslan, and they got into a
>brawl with the Vilani, but I would have thought that most of these
>engagements would have tended to involve Cruisers or smaller ships.  I
>can't really see where the Battle squadrons would have suffered the serious
>losses that would have occurred to Lucan's and Dulinor's fleets.


Keep in mind that according to canon Daibei never gave up its own fleets
either, which would mean that it could stand to be a major player in a
non-Virused post-rebellion era. Of course, they may have had to make their
own deals and their own alliances with the Solomani.

>In other words, all our old friends from the Marches can be found anywhere
>in the Imperium, there is still, or once again, an Imperium, and there is
>also a swag of minor states, and great chunks of lawless space - what more
>do you want?


Personally? I'd like a more decentralized and localized pre-rebellion
Imperium. I don't mind the feudalism as much as the fact that the Imperium
doesn't seem to act like a feudal system.

Actually, to take it a step further, I'm finding the idea of a Grand
Imperium less and less attractive by the day, and not because of personal
ideology. On one hand, I'm starting to feel that the Imperium would be much
more difficult to hold together from a strong centralized seat of government
than has been portrayed to this point. On the other hand, I'm starting to
really like the idea of smaller post-feudal sovereign states that are held
together by a complex web of alliances. Something more along the lines of
Europe on the eve of World War I.

Some problems with this view: It really downplays the concept of the
Solomani as a beastly enemy intent on conquering the Imperium. Instead, the
Solomani become just another state. The Vargr are particularly problematic
though, and I'm trying to work out their role.

Of course, not only is all of this not canon, it's directly anti-canon which
makes me a heretic of the worst sort. ;)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:29:58 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com>
Subject: Re: Lucan the Man... 

> >In other words, all our old friends from the Marches can be found anywhere
> >in the Imperium, there is still, or once again, an Imperium, and there is
> >also a swag of minor states, and great chunks of lawless space - what more
> >do you want?
> 
> 
> Someone to go back in time and write it into "official" Traveller canon
> this way.
> 
> Rebellion --> Hard Times --> Norris' Long Dawn --> 4th Imperium
> 
> Oooh. I'm getting the shivers. :-)

Would have taken him a few decades to get the strength up to push through
Corridor with anything worth talking about when he finished it.

Keven

- -- 
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:01:46 -0300
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Jump Technology

At 08:27 PM 11/10/1999 GMT, you wrote:
>On Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:23:54 -0700, "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
><xrp@sierratel.com> wrote:
>
>>> Do you have an URL for where this is posted?
>>Sure! The base URL is:
>>http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller/
>>
>>Under the Library Data I snagged this:
>>
>>Bakarov-Turner Hyperdrive
>>
>
>How is this different from the Bachman Turner Overdrive?
>
>
>===========================================================================
=====
>- Pete
j_pete@bellsouth.net
>

        Pete:  to date, you would be the first person to comment on that joke.  
        The answer, of course, is that my version is better for "taking care
of buisness"....

        --Michel
        (The TNEC Guy)

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:14:03 -0300
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Jump Technology

At 03:11 PM 11/10/1999 -0700, you wrote:
>> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:27:17 GMT
>> From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
>> 
>> >Under the Library Data I snagged this:
>> >
>> >Bakarov-Turner Hyperdrive
>> 
>> How is this different from the Bachman Turner Overdrive?
>
>                BTH Prototype            BTO Concert
>How started   Lights dim, feeling      Lights dim, drugs
>              of disorientation        kick in
>Duration      Roughly seven days       Roughly twelve songs
>Distance      One parsec               70s to present
>Extensible?   No                       Hold up lighter
>How ended     Emergence into normal    Staggering into
>              space                    parking lot
>
>"You ain't seen n-n-n-nothin' yet..."
>   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net

        ROTFLAMO!

        *Damn* fine thing that I had finished my hot choclate before I read
this....

        --Michel

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:33:45 -0300
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Firing two guns at once...

At 09:50 PM 12/10/1999 +1000, you wrote:
>>
>> >Can't really call your characteristic
>> >"ambidextrous", and it doesn't sound like somebody forced you to use your
>> >off-hand. Could it be based on fine dexterity vs gross agility?
>> >
>>
>>         That is my experience.  Amongst other games I play, I am a fencer.
>> I also dabble in a MA that sims Middle Ages English broadsword and sheild
>> fighting.  I am "supposed" to be right handed.  I play raquet ball and
>fence
>> right handed.  I pitch softball and swing sword left handed.  I write with
>> my right, and heft with my left.  I call it adaptive ambidexterity....
>>
>
>I can use a knife and fork in either hand!  ;^)
>

        Really?  Cool!  I have to put them in seperate hands... You must eat
quickly...

        --Michel
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 09:38:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Heplar Efficiency

Antony Farrell writes:
> If people think Heplar thrusters are too efficient the solution seems
> simple, just increase the fuel consumption for a given thrust. Doubling
> fuel consumption immediately halves the drives efficiency. In any case
> trying to fit 40 GHrs of fuel in some ships can be a real challenge.

Reasonable realistic fuel consumption is about 100x (4,000 seconds).  If you
wanted to be very optimistic, 10x is probably fair, but in that case you should
consider CG to be mandatory on any ship intended to ever land on a planet,
HEPlaR is far too dangerous to use near other objects.  For close-in
manuevering thrusters (docking and the like), I'd probably assume that the
HEPlaR thrusters can be tuned down.

As for 40 G-hours -- you do realize you can reach any location in the solar
system on <1 G-hour of fuel?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 09:46:25 -0700
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: Re: Heplar Efficiency

>
> As for 40 G-hours -- you do realize you can reach any location in the
solar system on <1 G-hour of fuel?
>

Actually, you can reach *any* location using 1 G-hour of fuel. It just may
take a while.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 09:58:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Heplar Efficiency

Luther Martin writes:

> Actually, you can reach *any* location using 1 G-hour of fuel. It just may
> take a while.

Nope.  There's a minimum based on gravitational effects.  1 G-hour is
insufficient to either escape the galaxy or get even halfway to the galactic
core.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 14:09:32 -0300
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Slang in Trav

At 01:16 PM 10/13/1999 +0100, you wrote:
>>Bounce Infantry: BD or CA troops with Grav Belts and training to use them,
>>but not trained for Orbital Drop. Generally do Grav-Belt deploys as HALO
>>style ops, using the Grave belts as parachutes, and then using bouncing
>                      ^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>I take it that's a non-functional grav belt used in a HALO style op?
>
>Andy.
>
        <FOC-ROTFL!>
        Wouldn't that be a HANO-style op?

        --Michel
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:21:56 -0400
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU>
Subject: re: Slang in Traveller

Michel Vaillancourt wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>but not trained for Orbital Drop. Generally do Grav-Belt deploys as HALO
>>style ops, using the Grave belts as parachutes, and then using bouncing
>                      ^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>I take it that's a non-functional grav belt used in a HALO style op?
>
>Andy.
>
        <FOC-ROTFL!>
        Wouldn't that be a HANO-style op?
>>>>>>>>>>
Followed by some NOE, er, rather, NIE (Nap-In-the-Earth) operations...
<weg>

Walt Smith

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:23:43 PDT
From: "Gary Miles" <garyglennmiles@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: SEC:UNCLASSIFIED Was Re: GURPS errata now Graffiti

>On Tue, 12 Oct 1999 01:11:35 -0700, "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
><xrp@sierratel.com> wrote:
>
> >> 'I AM THE ANGLE OF DEATH'
> >
> >I wonder how many degrees that would be?
>
>I would guess less than 90. I picture death as being more acute than
>obtuse. ;-)

I agree. Just read any DC Veritgo comic with Death. She isa prettya cute...!

Gary

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:36:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
Subject: noise

On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, Gary Miles wrote:

> 
> >On Tue, 12 Oct 1999 01:11:35 -0700, "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"
> ><xrp@sierratel.com> wrote:
> >
> > >> 'I AM THE ANGLE OF DEATH'
> > >
> > >I wonder how many degrees that would be?
> >
> >I would guess less than 90. I picture death as being more acute than
> >obtuse. ;-)
> 
> I agree. Just read any DC Veritgo comic with Death. She is a pretty a
cute...!
> 
I used to dress up as her at conventions when I was skinnier...

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:53:46 -0700
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com>
Subject: Re: Heplar Efficiency

>
> Nope.  There's a minimum based on gravitational effects.  1 G-hour is
insufficient to either escape the galaxy or get even halfway to the galactic
core.
>

Those are limitations which I can live with.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:49:40 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: RE: Traveller Versions

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> writes:

>>>>, but this has nothing to equate to the shifting
>>>>difficulty levels that Traveller editions have.
>>>Sure it does...
>>
>>Please can you elaborate and state where in GURPS Basic there is defined a
>>common (ie across all skills and situations) set of TN modifiers which
>>relate to the difficulty of the task.
>
>Well, lets see, someone behind partial cover is a -2 to hit.  Shooting
>while on the move is -4 to hit.  Etc.  (there are as I recall as I
>don't have Basic in from of me).

All of these are individual modifiers for specific situations. There is
nothing to demonstrate a systematic approach, graduating the difficulty of
the same skill roll, in the modifiers you're quoting above.

I'll wait until you have Basic in front of you - I don't expect you to give
page refs etc when you haven't got the books there!  <g>

>>For example, using a vac suit to manuever across a brightly light room with
>>stable gravity against using a vac suit to manuever across a room with
>>fluctuating gravity and strobing lights. Both would have the same Target
>>Number on 3D6 using GURPS unless the GM improvised or found something in a
>>skill description or combat section to use.
>
>Exactly where is the difficulty to do this described in MT?

It isn't, and I never claimed it was. It was intended as an example of a
situation where a character may need to use the same skill, but the task is
inherently harder. However, once the ref has a feel (either from the stats
or from experience) for the difficulty levels built in the system it is
easy to rate tasks using the same skill against each other. Published
adventures etc tend to provide a good baseline.

>>No. There is no common system for rating difficulty or modifiers across all
>>task situations in GURPS Basic that I can see. This is important to a lot
>>of people I know.
>Yes there is.  Bad footing is a -2 to rolls across all task situations.
>Just as is might be a "difficult" taskin MT.  The _only_ difference is the
>table of verbal labels given to the labels.

That isn't the only difference. GURPS does not provide any guidance to the
ref for appropriate modifier for different situations. It gives a long list
of individual situations which have differing DMs. This is not a structured
recognition of the fact that tasks can differ in difficulty generally. The
system relies on the developed intuition of a referee; Traveller's task
system inherently provides a structure to look at different difficulties
and an intuitive 'verbal label' for each level of difficulty in a task.
These are tied back to the underlying system.

GURPS provides a single resolution roll, and relies on the referee to add a
DM as they feel appropriate to simulate any task difficulty, plus a whole
list of modifiers for skill and situation. GURPS does not recognise varying
difficlties beyond the referee's fiat.

The end effect may be similar, but the underlying structure of the rules
mechanism is fundamentally different. Traveller's tasks systems are
designed, some better than others. They recognise that skill rolls may need
to be harder and provide the mechanism to handle this. GURPS has a passing
reference in chapter 12 to a GM setting a skill roll at a modifier but
doesn't elaborate on this, certainly not to the extent of providing a
system to do so.

Returning the original discussion - this is a reason that some ex-TNE, MT,
and T4 players find problems with the GURPS system. It may be a *perceived*
problem (and I agree it is simple to resolve) but that doesn't stop it
making people reluctant to use GURPS as a system. And that is why *you* get
the perception that people are constantly having a go at GURPS. IMO GURPS
is getting a really smooth ride. Look back two or three years and see the
flack that IG's material got. The waters of the TML are deep, placid and
still compared to then.

Personally, I feel the rules are a non-issue. I'd rather SJG fixed the
Technical Architecture for VEII to fit better with Traveller's previous
canon. And switch to metric, but that's another story... ;-)

GT has some of the best Traveller books ever (eg Far Trader) and I welcome
SJGs work.

Dom

- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
                       MiB - Marines in Battledress
   "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:56:15 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: RE: Traveller Versions

John Wood <John@elvw.demon.co.uk> writes:

>Compare the following:
>
>  To make yourself understood on the net:
>  Formidable, Liaison, 5 min (fateful, unskilled OK)
>  [David rolls 6 on 2D, adds his Liaison-1 and compares with 15. Oops!]
>
>and
>
>  GM: "Roll against Diplomacy at -6."
>  [John subtracts 6 from his Diplomacy-9 and compares with a 3D roll of
>   12. Rats!]
>  GM: "There's a flamewar a-brewing..."

<grin>

>The only difference I can see is that MT has a convenient shorthand for
>writing down the task definition. Since (like most non-combat tasks)
>this probably wasn't defined in a supplement somewhere, that doesn't
>seem a vital feature. The MT Referee probably thought something like "I
>don't rate his chances - let's make it a Formidable task", while the
>GURPS GM thought "wow, that's tricky - let's give him a -6".

There is a second post to David with this one - the basic thing is that
Traveller actually has this built in, but GURPS has it as a one line aside
in the Success Rolls chapter...

>Sorry to waffle on. I'm genuinely interested in the difference, I just
>can't see it yet.

In a nutshell - Traveller's task system has the possibility of different
difficulty levels built in and was designed with this in mind. GURPS has it
kind of bolted on to the skill roll, if you pick up on the passing
reference.

Functionally it makes bugger all difference if the GM knows about it and is
prepared. Philosophically, it's miles apart.

Dom

- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
                       MiB - Marines in Battledress
   "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1203
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